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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:35 pm 
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That looks like the Wikipedia article on Area 51. Great info, but a little much to digest all at once.

If you're planning on visiting Area 51, and just want to know more about how to get there and find your way around, check out my website: visitAREA51.com.

Let me know if anyone has any questions.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:09 am 
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I think the posting is one you can keep going back to and linking with Wikipedia.
Thanks for the info and I,ll check out that AREA51.com

cheers

kevin
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:41 am 
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No doubt! It keeps getting better and better. The nice thing about Area 51, is that not much changes--or at least, not that much that we know about!
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:06 pm 
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The main problem in area 51 discussions between reasonable people has been the unique complexity of the Roswell case. Nothing in ufology has been remotely like it in terms of numbers of witnesses, variety and quality of researchers, fragmented information, and [i]the lack of a comprehensive, clear research document [/i]to[i] [/i]which all discussants can refer. Because of this complexity, perhaps no single researcher can wrap his mind completely around the case, and so all commentators work partly from ignorance.
What ingredients interest the pro-crash researchers from which they build their working hypothesis?
The first stone is really the foundation stone, and surprisingly almost never enters the discussion [u]That there was a huge wave of flying disk sightings[/u] being reported all over the country in the summer of 1947, and which continued intermittently as essentially the same phenomenon through 1952. This outbreak of anomalous aerial events was apparently well-witnessed and very convincing to those who studied it. What were they convinced of? That these [i]were flying disks; [/i]technical craft performing beyond our own capabilities of the time, and of a very unusual configuration. Almost every discussion of the Roswell event skips lightly over this UFO context, and most begin talking as if the report were to be properly viewed as an isolated event.
Taking three elements in historical context; the UFO wave, pro-crash researchers have reasoned this way
1. There seem to have been a lot of reports of technological disk-shaped craft of superior aeronautical performance flying about.
2. Roswell Army Air Field's commander reported that he and the base had found a crashed one.
3. The head of base intelligence reported (many years later) that this was true and that it wasn't any balloon, and that as far as he could tell the material was unearthly.
4. The characteristics and amounts of the debris reported seem inconsistent with any known U.S. (or other) technical project which could have crashed there.
[i]Conclusion. [/i]'The Roswell event was a crashed non- terrestrial technology" is a reasonable working hypothesis.
In my opinion there has never been a [b][i]good focused debate[/i][/b] on critical aspects of this case, nor a research resource that would make such a debate feasible. But it's something that the serious people in the field need to do if the status of the crash event is ever to be made more understandable to any of us......
Just a thought.

kev
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:00 am 
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It is an interesting topic at times to talk about evidence as it pertains to Area 51. If what I've just read is any indication, there is a paper trail miles long, it just changes shape, colour, and direction depending upon who is delegating the R&D funds to silently incorporate the back engineered products from the original crash site, into every day technology, without narry a ripple in the murky waters of secrecy.

Take for instance Col. Philip J. Corso, (Ret.) who wrote 'The Day After Roswell'. It is a fascinating look, even from a historical perspective, of the secret workings of intelligence circles during the cold war. I believe that they thought the saucers they were seeing were Russian, and the increased UFO activity [i]prior[/i] to the Roswell crash, had the military scrambling to understand how so many unknown flying objects could keep appearing, changing shape and disappearing off radar screens to such a degree that they were preparing to scramble jets to thwart the russians from US air space. Even when Roswell happened, and the evidence from that crash was in hand, the UFO's were then known not to be Russian, but were [u]still [/u]considered to be a threat, because they were flying at will anywhere they pleased, and there was no stopping them. At that time in history, that must have been understandably seen as some form of invasion, or hostile act.

But, time went on, and what was recovered from the crash site, according to this book, changed hands and departments among the most select individuals, and again, the purpose of knowing what they had, and how to figure out how to use it to military advantage was the goal.

The hours and days after the crash quickly developed into a coverup that is still ongoing today.

There are some parts of the book that I don't understand entirely, and it's hard to take the facts as facts when there are consistently loose ends even now after decades have passed. Why not just tell the entire truth, why just go half way when you have nothing to lose. But even if the events described in the book regarding the coverup are to be belived at all, it is an interesting glimpse into just how possible it is for a coverup to have happened of this magnitude in the first place.

It goes far beyond just silencing eye-witnesses, and putting retractions in the local newspaper. The unseen might of those in possession of the Roswell information, and those who have benefited from it, are almost unfathomable in scope to the average person.

Tim
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:19 am 
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Rightly or wrongly, pro-crash researchers view Major Marcel as a responsible and competent soldier, of good qualifications to distinguish between mundane balloon debris and something extraordinary, and of good character well beyond the creation of elaborate public hoaxes on potentially important matters.
This characterization of Marcel, given his position in July 1947, some serious rationalization by counterviews must be made to cast him into a light of incompetence, irresponsibility, and/or dishonesty. Realizing how important Marcel is to the case has apparently spawned just such attempts to attack him.
I might add that this sort of attack has become a standard weapon in the arsenal of ufological debunkers. In a field so dependent upon testimony and researcher competence and honesty, [i]maybe [/i]one can understand this, but in today's climate it seems well out of control and terminally destructive. We have often seen that debunkers fall back on this as a last (and often vicious) line of defense
You are right, the first stone is really the foundation stone, and surprisingly almost never enters the discussion that there WAS a huge wave of flying disk sightings being reported all over the country in the summer of 1947, and which continued intermittently through to 1952. This outbreak of anomalous aerial events was well-witnessed and very convincing to those who studied it.
What were they convinced of? That these [i]were flying saucers [/i]technical craft performing beyond our own capabilities of the time, and of a very unusual configuration. Almost every discussion of the Roswell event skips lightly over these UFO incidents, and even talk as if the reports were viewed as isolated events. Roswell standing alone as a one off singular event?
[u][b]Imagine,[/b][/u]
An unavoidably messy situation in the Roswell area, both physically and socially, which was "cleaned up" by whatever means available as quickly as possible.
Lots of leaks and unauthorized knowledge would be part of that mess, and lots of leaks occurred as expected.
Secondly, almost no one would have to be in the know at Fort Worth, and that would be easy to secure.
Thirdly, almost no one (a few lab scientists maybe) would have to be in the know at Wright Field (or wherever), and that would be easy to secure.
The number of people in the Pentagon (and related D.C. scientists) would initially be a little messier, but the problem could be kicked upstairs very quickly and generally organized and controlled.
The vast majority of military, political, and intelligence functions would be left entirely out of the loop, as it would be imperative for them to go forward with their business as if we had nothing to hide.
Only if anything of real technical importance ever emerged from the testing would a decision have to be made to "say-alter mankinds histiory." That decision [b]would not be a crude decision[/b], but as subtle an "interference" as possible. All decisions made would be driven by security issues alone. None would be driven by "science" or desire to explore.

Kev
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:34 pm 
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Interestingly enough, what was recovered at the crash site was truly 'foreign', and they had neither the understanding or technology to understand what they had, or the importance the items held, until many years later. They only knew that what they had was technology that allowed UFO's to do what they did. Without an understanding of this flying technology, they were left to only regard what they saw as a potential threat.

Interesting that during the research and development years that that is exactly how they referred to the materials found 'foreign technology', and when parts were introduced in order to have an analysis, as technology developed, the history of the part, or the visor or what have you was only 'something foreign', never would it be mentioned it was from the Roswell crash. In that way, they could say to a potential developer that it was something that was picked up in East Germany or whatever, and they wanted to know what it was and how to back engineer it. (the part itself being of course, 'foreign'.) So, those developing the new technology merely thought the high security was typically due to the materials coming from 'foreign' countries via some spy coup. I always wondered how what they found and eventually developed could be kept from so many thousands of people along the way, and now I see that by the way they presented it, it wasn't necessary to say where it was from, only that it came into their possession and it may have military properties that would give the US an advantage.

So, while they had extrordinary material in their possession from the Roswell crash, they developed a way to research and develop it without having to qualify it's origins. So really, it wasn't secret at all. It was just calling it by another name, and presented in a way that, yes, it was secretive (who wants to give away possible technological advantages to the enemy), but for all intent and purpose, nobody knew where it came from except a very few. They knew what they had was valuable, and eventually time caught up with technology advancements and these items, ie night vision, lazer, were developed and put to practical use, as they were able to finally figure it all out.

And that was just one retrieved space craft. Makes you wonder about all the others.

Tim
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:26 pm 
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it does indeed.
I should imagine too, that they would lead people to believe it may have been Russian. With all the cold war and stuff that would have been enough to shut everyone up or be deemed a TRAITOR.


Who knows

kev
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:33 am 
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The Roswell incident has been described in a sworn death bed statement by Walter Haupt.
(this was the intell officer i think you mention)
There are numerous statements by high rank air force personell(generals,colonels,etc)
To the effect that there are extraterrestrials visiting earth.
Nothing seems to get through to the ordinary people on the street.
The facts are well proven beyond the requirements of legal proof of murder in court.
There is no reason to doubt the veracity of a high percentage of sightings.
The only explanation for the relegation of UFOs to the wierd and wonky files lies in Govt disinformation and psy war mind control tactics used on the populace.
If the curiosity and interest of mainstream scientists werent already tainted with an atmosphere of fear and derision i believe there would be far more science done on these things.
As it is now, no one but the most untouchable of scientists can even voice a counter opinion on UFOs without ending up without tenure.
The system has efectively barred any serious scientific study........There can only be one reason, they want this technology for themselves....with it they hope to control the whole of mankind.
There can be no other possible reason for withholding the research that already has been done, and discouraging serious study in future.
The people need direct contact with ET to break this deadlock.
I hope that ET reads this forum from time to time...
"ET,Phone Earth!..............

(by the way, those were CRESCENT shaped craft spotted by Kenneth Arnold, the press altered the description with their usual stupid bungling.
I often wondered what percentage of the following saucer sightings were hysterical because the origonal ships were definately not saucers!
The saucer scare that followed could have been a totally different set of aliens...perhaps even searching for the crescents due to some interstellar conflict....
Earth itself may be a side show compared to the hugeness of the stage just outside the atmosphere....we could be so damn incedental to the main plot its embarrassing....

bergle
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:08 am 
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I was listening to a re-run of an old Art Bell show on abductions and one couple had unexplained mileage on their car and a bad sun burn in the middle of an Oregon winter.

ET don't need to drive your car or have you drive to meet them, so what is going on here with so many of these reported abductions?

I do believe this is part of the cover-up, that it is not always ET doing the abducting and black ops play a major role in this.

Of course this is a bit harder for some to swallow than ET, but only because we like the idea of trusting our military to protect us.

Of course there are ET.......real ET.....but so much of this is simply part of the local background noise.

I just read a news clip about cell phones for preschoolers? Are you kidding me......unfortunately not.
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