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 Post subject: Re: Hypnosis
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:18 am 
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Insofar as I'm concerned, David, I know for certain there can be "Manchurian Candidates..." My step father was (presumably) made to make his death look like a suicide, but he knew 6 weeks prior that, the government was programming him to do this, because he was against their mind control experiments which were being designed to assassinate people. So he knew they were going to get rid of him. He wasn't positively certain they'd program him to do himself in, and perhaps he was stronger than they thought, and they actually did have to kill him. But he warned my mother and me that his death was eminent.

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 Post subject: Re: Hypnosis
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:35 am 
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I was asking the question to get Timbits take on it.

As far as I'm concerned there is no question about it, mind control subjects can and have been made to involuntarily kill people. And this is not a new thing either, it's been an operational tool for at least 50 years.

There is no psychosis involved in this respect, so the controlled subject will not be psychopathic, they are simply a victim of mind control.

Not a pleasant thought I'm sure and certainly not pleasant for either the targeted victim or the assassin being manipulated via mind control. It's a ghastly business, but very effective in getting rid of uncooperative individuals.

But it must be kept in mind that mind control and clinical hypnosis are two completely different things even though hypnosis is an important element of mind control.

So sorry about your step-father Tweaked, a tragedy to be sure.


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 Post subject: Re: Hypnosis
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:02 pm 
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I have a couple of thoughts on that part.

If you take a person, and subject that person through extrordinary, systematic programming, who, through the manipulation of their environment (including sleep and food deprevation), and produce a person who is stripped of their sense of 'self', I can see where it is possible to, a)- achieve hypnosis in the 'new' state, and b)- introduce and reinforce a command, or suggestion or directive, to kill, once that extreme level of trust=survival is reached.

You are not programming a person who is self-aware. Remember the psychological training of soldiers for example. What is there, is broken down, bit by bit, and rebuilt, to be totally dependant on the 'one think', and one goal platform. What is eventually produced by rebuilding the very psyche of a person, is a different person. Radical Islam is no different, and their results depend upon the control of every natural function of a human being. Perception, thought patterns, belief systems, goals, visions, all of it. Whether it be underwritten by religion, or military, the goal is to have many people who's behaviour is predictable, to achieve the goals of those programming them.

Take that person out of this programming, they will need to relearn (or learn) who they are.

Hypnosis to produce a killer would require the breaking down first, the programming at the most extreme levels uncomprehensible to most. If the ultimate goal is to produce a killer, and the total survival of that person depends upon following orders and/or instructions, hypnosis would still be voluntary, but the permission is given by the individual, because the old person, no longer exists.

In this case, that permission is based upon who they have become, and trust had long ago been established to a degree that survival depended upon unconditional trust without question.

Post traumatic stress includes this element of the 'one think' consequence. Eventually soldiers go home and most of us think their suffering after returning, it is the aftermath of seeing war- death and destruction, but a huge part of that is the fact that death and destruction has also been caused by them, and the 'cause' was shared, designed, controlled, and executed by those that 'trained' them. It goes far beyond 'a cause'. Returning to normal SHOULD require the same degree of de-programming, as it did in programming, but it does not.

So, we are left with knowing that human beings can indeed be programmed, and we see the results of this everyday. There is always a purpose behind it.

So, for mainstream hypnosis used to assist in uncovering past trauma in order to function better in life is one thing, or hypnosis used for entertainment purposes is yet another. They are tools used, as one method of achieving simple goals, with permission of the one receiving.

But used as step 258 of a 300 step program to produce a person who is capable of killing another by suggestion, over a long period of time, under extreme, controlled circumstances, is, in my opinion, entirely possible.


Tim

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 Post subject: Re: Hypnosis
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:08 pm 
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Tweaked, your grandfather is a case in point. Part of the extreme programming also involves covering one's (programming) ass.

If he were to be free, truly free, after his assignments, there would have been a 'normal' period of adjustment, trauma etc., which are all part of expected behaviours by friends, family etc.

Where he was not allowed to go afterwards, was the place where truth would reveal the deeper levels that programmed him in the first place.

They would also have included in their programming goals, step 301, the ultimate consequence of disclosure- death.

Tim

p.s. Incidentally, when I was hypnotised, there was a suggestion made, after the show, that when a certain song was played again, should I ever be in the audience of another of his shows, that I would automatically go up on the stage. I was not under hypnosis at the time, and I do not remember the song, but there was a seed planted, that would trigger a set response, at a future date.

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Last edited by Timbit on Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Hypnosis
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 3:23 am 
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Wow, that was an amazing response Timbit (Daisy), I'd say you get an A+ in PTS and mind control.

But there is one thing you didn't mention and that is the word guilt, which is, for a soldier, even more disabling than the sights of war.

Feeling guilty for even being alive, for surviving when others died. Guilt is a common thread in relation to persons suffering from PTS.

Very nasty stuff.

If you've read my post over at Lincoln Park where the doctor is explaining his work with Sara, he wants her to view him as God, where he has absolute control over every aspect of her life.

In respect to mind control the subject will comply and or cooperate because they have been conditioned through various forms of torture, deprivation, drugs and brainwashing.

What you end up with is a multiple personality that does not consciously know they are split and unlike most people suffering dissociation they do not display any outward symptoms, as the control factor is in place by means of triggers in the form of specific words and numbers.

What makes this so chilling is that there are no outward clues by which to identify a controlled subject. They themselves have absolutely no idea that they are in fact controlled or capable of whatever they have been trained to do. They simply live in the dark.

Therefore an assassin can live a seemingly normal life until they are called upon to do the unthinkable. Unthinkable not only to anyone who thinks they know this person but to the subject themselves.

And to ensure the security of the operation the subject has most often been conditioned to take their own life upon completion of their assignment and in this respect they will comply as they have no conscious control over the subconscious conditioning to which they have been subjected.

Also, a mind control subject can and will be periodically tested through the reinforcement of their traumatic conditioning to ensure their continued compliance. The control must be unquestionable in the minds of those in control as there are no allowances for failure in respect to the objective of the operation.

There are no rights and freedoms involved when it comes to mind control. The subject is denied their human character and are viewed as a piece of equipment and or a method of operation.

And believe it or not, stupid people do not qualify. So the brightest and the most intellectually capable individuals are preferred. What a waste, what a tragedy.


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 Post subject: Re: Hypnosis
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:19 pm 
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Hey David, it's better they stay with us...'cause there they could be used for something bad... ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Hypnosis
PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 6:39 am 
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Let me quote Dr. George Estabrook.........

"Only a people who refuse to permit themselves to sink into intellectual lethargy and conformity, only a people who question and think can be sure that hypnosis-disguised or direct-will not undermine their freedom and rob them of their very lives."

"War is the end of all law. When we speak of keeping within the rules we are childish, because it is not a game and true rules never hold. In the last analysis any devise is justifiable which enables us to protect ourselves from defeat."

In his time Estabrook was an authority on the subject of hypnosis and mind control.

Many dismiss his books as rubbish....but to dismiss Estabrook is a mistake. His books were a form of disclosure...he was trying to warn us of the inherent dangers involved and the consequences denial might bring.


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 Post subject: Re: Hypnosis
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:06 pm 
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Years ago an old professor (teacher) fro University found that the Vatican was irradiating bad waves all around. He started to speak and revelas everything to peoples. One day the director told him that his work was ended there. He loosed his job entirely. Money ended and the professor started to go around Milano. Time pase and the man became an homeless, passing his life with other homelesses. He was used to go in many parks and writing on the floor "the Vatican is killing you with radiation waves", and screaming the same around.

None knows what happened to him, none has seen him anymore. One day came the new that he died misteriously. Few years later, some television's reporter found the same and made an article. All was real, but concerning all devices used to transmit from radio and television (Vatican has both).

Today too in Roma, in some building, you can hear radio Vatican from a simple intercom..! Peoples are now (again) trying to stop them also 'cause some of them died for cancer...coincidence?

Here is nothing about hypnosis, but a lot about power used to silence peoples...

I told you the story about Cagliostro (real name Balsamo) from Sicily. He was the very first natural hypnotist (mesmer). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alessandro_Cagliostro

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 Post subject: Re: Hypnosis
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:10 pm 
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I pefectly know what said Tweaked and I believe it...

Quote:
are you suggesting that a person under hypnosis or in an controlled state cannot be made to involuntarily kill someone?
it depends how much the hupnotist knows about hypnosis...

Usually subject not reacting are those peoples with problems to their nervous system, but today there are also ways to bypass that too...

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 Post subject: Re: Hypnosis
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 9:06 am 
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You bet it can be done.....yes, of course it can.

Hypnosis is all about memory and remembering, so the basic theme of the Manchurian Candidate is solid and well founded.

You can bypass the issues of ethics and morals by creating a second personality who does not remember the first personality and everything the first personality knows about ethics and morals.

All the second personality can do is follow orders, as they have no self motivation other than their basic survival instinct.

Its called mind control and a coded trigger activates the second personality to a passive state of readiness to obey.

I know it sounds like science fiction to many, but it is not that, it has been around for a very long time and has been developed to a very high level of efficiency.


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