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Hypnosis
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Author:  dad [ Mon Aug 18, 2008 9:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hypnosis

I found an article but is dated 2005. It looks good also for these days...


"This is your brain under Hypnosis"
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/22/science/22hypno.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Author:  Timbit [ Mon Aug 18, 2008 11:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hypnosis

It is interesting that there are two main components missing from this story.

One is the relationship with the hypnotist. There has to be a trust and safety. It is unnatural for a human being to not to be suspicious or feel reservation, particularly when they know they are in unfamilar territory, and the general understanding is that people under hypnosis are not in control of what they do. Trust is not instantaneous.

Second is that during the entire hypnosis process, which is only accomplished with a fully conscious, aware person, there is permission. Once trust is established, the one being hypnotised has given permission and cooperates. Without that, there is no hypnotising.

Because of those two elements, they are in a state where if the hypnotist says that red apple is blue, you may allow yourself to see the apple as blue. This voluntary action is quite different than suggesting that a person can be involuntarily hypnotised to kill someone.

There are different levels of consciousness, and there are different levels of relationships. A person hypnotised by a trusted therapist is more likely to respond to suggestions over a period of several sessions. Building on these layers, permission is still required, and nothing is accomplished if the subject is unwilling to further regress. Each layer requires more and more trust.

We have all seen sessions whereby a person, recalling trauma, will exhibit the symptoms and event as though it were happening in real time; the physical memory is being re-lived. It is only a very skilled therapist that will recognize the danger, and end the session. It is also, on the other side of the coin, totally unethical for a therapist to push the limits of the trust established to coerce the person to carry on, even though danger is emminently going to result in further trauma, and is of no therapeutic use to the client.

If the client goes further than he is comfortable with because of the trust in the therapist, it is still a conscious choice, even though in a hypnotic state.

Should anybody consider this type of therapy, it is imperative that they are aware of their own control, and aware of tactics that can be less than credible.

There are some individuals who are more trusting than others, and they are the ones who are more susceptible to hypnosis because they are more trusting. It is those that are perhaps easier subjects because they may presume that a clinician in a white coat with a clipboard is not subject to scrutiny.

But for most of us, the opposite would be true. We are in control.

Tim

Author:  david barclay [ Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hypnosis

Timbit,

That is a very important post..........oh so true.

Therapy such as that described can cause severe trauma to the client. They are reliving a previous trauma and in doing so are experiencing the trauma all over again. This can be extremely disabilitating and very dangerous.

Author:  david barclay [ Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hypnosis

One question though.....are you suggesting that a person under hypnosis or in an controlled state cannot be made to involuntarily kill someone?

Author:  Tweaked [ Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hypnosis

Insofar as I'm concerned, David, I know for certain there can be "Manchurian Candidates..." My step father was (presumably) made to make his death look like a suicide, but he knew 6 weeks prior that, the government was programming him to do this, because he was against their mind control experiments which were being designed to assassinate people. So he knew they were going to get rid of him. He wasn't positively certain they'd program him to do himself in, and perhaps he was stronger than they thought, and they actually did have to kill him. But he warned my mother and me that his death was eminent.

Author:  david barclay [ Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hypnosis

I was asking the question to get Timbits take on it.

As far as I'm concerned there is no question about it, mind control subjects can and have been made to involuntarily kill people. And this is not a new thing either, it's been an operational tool for at least 50 years.

There is no psychosis involved in this respect, so the controlled subject will not be psychopathic, they are simply a victim of mind control.

Not a pleasant thought I'm sure and certainly not pleasant for either the targeted victim or the assassin being manipulated via mind control. It's a ghastly business, but very effective in getting rid of uncooperative individuals.

But it must be kept in mind that mind control and clinical hypnosis are two completely different things even though hypnosis is an important element of mind control.

So sorry about your step-father Tweaked, a tragedy to be sure.

Author:  Timbit [ Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hypnosis

I have a couple of thoughts on that part.

If you take a person, and subject that person through extrordinary, systematic programming, who, through the manipulation of their environment (including sleep and food deprevation), and produce a person who is stripped of their sense of 'self', I can see where it is possible to, a)- achieve hypnosis in the 'new' state, and b)- introduce and reinforce a command, or suggestion or directive, to kill, once that extreme level of trust=survival is reached.

You are not programming a person who is self-aware. Remember the psychological training of soldiers for example. What is there, is broken down, bit by bit, and rebuilt, to be totally dependant on the 'one think', and one goal platform. What is eventually produced by rebuilding the very psyche of a person, is a different person. Radical Islam is no different, and their results depend upon the control of every natural function of a human being. Perception, thought patterns, belief systems, goals, visions, all of it. Whether it be underwritten by religion, or military, the goal is to have many people who's behaviour is predictable, to achieve the goals of those programming them.

Take that person out of this programming, they will need to relearn (or learn) who they are.

Hypnosis to produce a killer would require the breaking down first, the programming at the most extreme levels uncomprehensible to most. If the ultimate goal is to produce a killer, and the total survival of that person depends upon following orders and/or instructions, hypnosis would still be voluntary, but the permission is given by the individual, because the old person, no longer exists.

In this case, that permission is based upon who they have become, and trust had long ago been established to a degree that survival depended upon unconditional trust without question.

Post traumatic stress includes this element of the 'one think' consequence. Eventually soldiers go home and most of us think their suffering after returning, it is the aftermath of seeing war- death and destruction, but a huge part of that is the fact that death and destruction has also been caused by them, and the 'cause' was shared, designed, controlled, and executed by those that 'trained' them. It goes far beyond 'a cause'. Returning to normal SHOULD require the same degree of de-programming, as it did in programming, but it does not.

So, we are left with knowing that human beings can indeed be programmed, and we see the results of this everyday. There is always a purpose behind it.

So, for mainstream hypnosis used to assist in uncovering past trauma in order to function better in life is one thing, or hypnosis used for entertainment purposes is yet another. They are tools used, as one method of achieving simple goals, with permission of the one receiving.

But used as step 258 of a 300 step program to produce a person who is capable of killing another by suggestion, over a long period of time, under extreme, controlled circumstances, is, in my opinion, entirely possible.


Tim

Author:  Timbit [ Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hypnosis

Tweaked, your grandfather is a case in point. Part of the extreme programming also involves covering one's (programming) ass.

If he were to be free, truly free, after his assignments, there would have been a 'normal' period of adjustment, trauma etc., which are all part of expected behaviours by friends, family etc.

Where he was not allowed to go afterwards, was the place where truth would reveal the deeper levels that programmed him in the first place.

They would also have included in their programming goals, step 301, the ultimate consequence of disclosure- death.

Tim

p.s. Incidentally, when I was hypnotised, there was a suggestion made, after the show, that when a certain song was played again, should I ever be in the audience of another of his shows, that I would automatically go up on the stage. I was not under hypnosis at the time, and I do not remember the song, but there was a seed planted, that would trigger a set response, at a future date.

Author:  david barclay [ Wed Aug 20, 2008 3:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hypnosis

Wow, that was an amazing response Timbit (Daisy), I'd say you get an A+ in PTS and mind control.

But there is one thing you didn't mention and that is the word guilt, which is, for a soldier, even more disabling than the sights of war.

Feeling guilty for even being alive, for surviving when others died. Guilt is a common thread in relation to persons suffering from PTS.

Very nasty stuff.

If you've read my post over at Lincoln Park where the doctor is explaining his work with Sara, he wants her to view him as God, where he has absolute control over every aspect of her life.

In respect to mind control the subject will comply and or cooperate because they have been conditioned through various forms of torture, deprivation, drugs and brainwashing.

What you end up with is a multiple personality that does not consciously know they are split and unlike most people suffering dissociation they do not display any outward symptoms, as the control factor is in place by means of triggers in the form of specific words and numbers.

What makes this so chilling is that there are no outward clues by which to identify a controlled subject. They themselves have absolutely no idea that they are in fact controlled or capable of whatever they have been trained to do. They simply live in the dark.

Therefore an assassin can live a seemingly normal life until they are called upon to do the unthinkable. Unthinkable not only to anyone who thinks they know this person but to the subject themselves.

And to ensure the security of the operation the subject has most often been conditioned to take their own life upon completion of their assignment and in this respect they will comply as they have no conscious control over the subconscious conditioning to which they have been subjected.

Also, a mind control subject can and will be periodically tested through the reinforcement of their traumatic conditioning to ensure their continued compliance. The control must be unquestionable in the minds of those in control as there are no allowances for failure in respect to the objective of the operation.

There are no rights and freedoms involved when it comes to mind control. The subject is denied their human character and are viewed as a piece of equipment and or a method of operation.

And believe it or not, stupid people do not qualify. So the brightest and the most intellectually capable individuals are preferred. What a waste, what a tragedy.

Author:  dad [ Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hypnosis

Hey David, it's better they stay with us...'cause there they could be used for something bad... ;)

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