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 Post subject: Re: [Guest] MK Ultra
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 10:19 am 
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The Canadian Government did pay $100,000.00 each to a few of Cameron's victims, but the rest were denied and the CIA did not pay anything.

Even this small amount is a kick in the pants, when you consider that most of these people are severely disabled from the experiments they were subjected to. A life time of severe suffering for most and they are mainly denied, not even adequate medical care.

And yes, aboriginal children were also used for experimental purposes, many of whom died from the experience. This too is denied.

Denial is a Canadian tradition, much like the idea of; rule of law may have once been considered a tradition.

If you want to really get into some scary stuff consider the treatment of orphans in the province of Quebec who were restricted to mental institutions because this provided more government money per child. Of course this did not help the children and many died at the hands of those performing human medical experiments as they were considered throw aways, much the same as many aboriginal children were considered throw aways.

Tens of thousands of innocent children systematically perished at the hands of their keepers, because they were helpless children and because they were expendable.

But like I said, denial is a standard response in Canada.

Have a great July 1.................Canada Day!
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 3:24 pm 
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The residential school's stories are truly horrifying, and let's not forget although they were funded by the Government, most were run by church's and as such had a certain immunity from any scruity. (much as is evidenced now). All residential schools, reformatories, and orphanages, regardless of who ran them and who funded them experienced the same fate. It just all seems to somehow never quite reach the truth and never reaches accountability. People still pop money in the baskets, and trust the Churchs to deal with these issues. Turn a blind eye. Here is some background for anybody interested in the particular circumstances of our native people.

[url "http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/aboriginals/residentialschools.html"]http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/aboriginals/residentialschools.html[/url]

[url "http://archives.cbc.ca/IDD-1-70-692/disasters_tragedies/residential_schools/"]http://archives.cbc.ca/IDD-1-70-692/disasters_tragedies/residential_schools/[/url]

Tim
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 Post subject: Re: [Timbit] MK Ultra
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 5:09 am 
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The Anglican church of canada had been the only one, in my knowledge to seriousl;y take the responsibility to heart and cough up their dough...the results nearly devastated the church but they seem to be keeping on...I have to hand it to them, though i am very done with any form of organized religion for life...!These people paid though they , for the most part had nothing to do with the uglyness...It was a matter of each person contributing to make the money up, and cost them some setbacks and hard times...
I do aplaud thrie christian spirit...
the rest well,.......like the man said," Many will come in my name,take heed and be not decieved"
I have good friends in their seventies who will never see their money from the Goverment..They are being outwaited till they die...
The hope is the less intelligent will take the lousey 8000 settlement to quit their claims...

bergle
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 Post subject: Re: [bergle] MK Ultra
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:43 am 
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In the case of residential school survivors, the Government of Canada refuses to apologize for the abuse inflicted upon so many children.

Under Mr. Harper, the government is not prepared to say they are sorry, no they refuse to say such a thing. The attitude seems to be, take the money and be quiet.

But beyond this there are many other things for which the Government of Canada refuses to say they are sorry, so we must assume they are not sorry at all. In fact we might even get the idea that they are only sorry that they should be asked to say they are sorry.

Why should it have been considered necessary for aboriginal people be simulated into a white society in the first place?

As they were considered to be a problem that required a solution the forced detainment of aboriginal children was intended to destroy their inherent culture and traditions and to be replaced by white social values. But due to the destructive nature of the residential school system the only thing that was accomplished was a reduction in the number of aboriginal children, as nearly half of them did not survive the experience, while many others suffered forced sterilization.

From the beginning it was about gaining control by force over the aboriginal people of Canada in order that they might be more easily manipulated for the purpose of further exploitation.

Of course you don't hear too many white Canadians complaining about any of this, but don't suggest that it could be racially motivated because you will hear plenty of complaining about that. We're not racists, how dare you suggest such a thing.

During the 50s Indians were allowed to ride the coastal ferries on the car deck, but could not go up to the comfortable lounges occupied by the white folks. And there were no bathrooms on the car deck, those were up the stairs and reserved for the white folks, but it wasn't a racial issue? It sure as hell was and it still is.

No official apology, this is very sad indeed, as it is long over due.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 4:09 pm 
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I'm sure you're aware of the recent blockade of the CN Rail, Via Rail, the 401 and other highways a few days ago. Once again, the Government promising to address Native issues, as they've promised in the past. I had a bit of an argument when I was picking up a prescription, just casual conversation and the person behind the counter commented on how inconvenient it was going to be for her husband to get to work that day. And that's typical right from the bottom up, it's an 'inconvenience' for those getting to their cottages, to work, CN lost millions, holiday travel was interrupted, tsk tsk, and what's this long-standing (generational) dispute over a tract of land in Napanee? Peaceful protest on Canada Day at the parliament buildings was just a nod.

I have read that, yes, land claims have been settled, pay-outs have come to pass, but issues of accountability regarding reconciliation, and apology have not occurred, beyond the money phase. It is all unfinished business.

There is so little information as to what remains, and what has been finished in these decades old negotiations. Who's needs are really being met by the impasse that continues.

One thing really stuck in my mind, and perhaps it's because I'm from the North where poverty is not just a native issue, but the more you travel up the James Bay Coast you see the injustice of our meddling (religious) ways more clearly in the Native communities. There is no dignity in living in the conditions we have imposed on our Native people.

When I started highschool in the North, there were still kids my age from Native communities who were taken out of their homes, forced to live with non-native families, and attend school and church. They were allowed certain weeks off to return to their homes to help during the hunting season. I remember that at the time people truly believed that these kids had to be 'saved'. I still wonder about them, and if they survived our 'interventions' for their own good. In the late 50's, communities were very much influenced by religion, and that in turn shaped these issues that were forced on the Native populations.

I haven't read the paper today as yet, but I wonder how much mention will be to the 'inconvenience' we all 'suffered' as a result of the issues, yet again, being brought to the forefront.

Tim
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 Post subject: Re: [Timbit] MK Ultra
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 6:51 pm 
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I am not sure how we got into this...reading back over all the posts , its just seems a natural progression somehow,but we are a long ways from hypnotism.....
And yet...we re not.
The fact is we are all hypnotised to some degree from birth...Awakening can be joyous at times, and a very guilt ridden and painful experience at others....
The act of awakening to our real reality is a brutal shock for the unprepared, and even when one is in a sense ready for it, it still puts a tailspin on our preprogrammed beliefs and taken for granteds......
Lord help us were a greedy, power mad bunch at heart, the lot of us.....
How can we redress such horrid acts of absolute power inflicted upon those who are given to our care and trust......
I assume we must go on ,but just how that is done will still make a forever difference in our lives and those of generations yet to come.....
There seems no way to stop the insanity let alone convince others what we are doing is mostly disfunctional in the extreme.
bergle
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 Post subject: Re: [bergle] MK Ultra
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:29 am 
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http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=K1ZNgsNBi8c

That's a short look at some of Dr Cameron's tortures. It's no surprise that 75% of psychoactive drugs and 90% of lobotomies are prescribed and conducted on women.

People in mental institutions still have less rights than a dog.

And torturing them and calling it medicine is still common place.

The general consensus is that those experiments were horrible. But that is only true if there is compassion now - for those still vulnerable to abuse.

None of Dr Cameron's patients, of the survivors - or more accurately of the 249 who made it to a court room, none got more than 100,000 dollars.

An insult.

They are the only survivors of an MK ultra mind control program to have ever been awarded damages or made to a court room.
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 Post subject: Re: [lotus] MK Ultra
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:11 am 
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lotus,

That is a very disturbing video, and at the same time, a very rude awakening to the very real facts of the experiments done on these poor helpless individuals at the hands of Dr. Cameron.

It is heartbreaking to hear Linda MacDonald's history, from her own words, and others like her. That she survived and brought forward some justice for herself and the other survivors is surely proof is like you said, hardly enough. In the video it mentions that Government payouts also came with a price, and that was a signed document by those abused not to sue any of the Doctors or the hospital. I guess they hope it will just go away now..........

How sad that Linda MacDonald never regained enough memory to know that she had two children, saying that she knew they came from her body but she had no memory, they were strangers to her. Her memory was wiped clean during the horrible experiments on her.

This reminds me very much of Lincoln Park that our David Barclay has written about. I don't know if you've read his posts on that, and I hope David in particular reads this and comments on it too.

As hard as this is to watch, and realize just how real it was, we do a disservice to those who suffered at the hands of these 'Doctors' not to read and hear their accounts.

Tim
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 Post subject: Re: [Timbit] MK Ultra
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:51 am 
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Found this website in my travels that describes actual experiments; the goals, and the 'successes', and this goes back to the early 20's. Imagine how far this has progressed in today's science
[b][/b]
[b]The CIA Mind Control Projects[/b]
A CIA document dated 10 Feb 1954 [url "http//wanttoknow.info/mindcontrol#_edn4"][4][/url] describes an experiment on the creation of unsuspecting assassins “Miss [whited out] was instructed (having expressed a fear of firearms) that she would use every method at her disposal to awaken Miss [whited out] (now in a deep hypnotic sleep). Failing this, she would pick up a pistol and fire it at Miss [whited out]. She was instructed that she would not hesitate to “kill” [whited out]. Miss [whited out] carried out these suggestions including firing the (unloaded) gun at [whited out] and then proceeded to fall into a deep sleep. After proper suggestions were made, both were awakened. Miss [whited out] expressed absolute denial that the foregoing sequence had happened.” BB 36, 37
MKULTRA grew into a mammoth undertaking. The nature of the research included these specific problems [url "http//wanttoknow.info/mindcontrol#_edn5"][5][/url] [ul] [li]Can we create by post-H (hypnotic) control an action contrary to an individual’s basic moral principles? [li]Can we “alter” a person’s personality? Can we guarantee total amnesia under any and all conditions? [li]Could we seize a subject and in the space of an hour by post-H control have him crash an airplane, etc? [li]Can we devise a system for making unwilling subjects into willing agents and then transfer that control to untrained agency agents in the field by use of codes or identifying signs? NB 13, 14, 28 [/li][/ul]
In a 1971 [i]Science Digest [/i]article [url "http//wanttoknow.info/mindcontrol#_edn6"][6][/url], Dr. G.H. Estabrooks states, “By the 1920’s clinical hypnotists learned to split certain individuals into multiple personalities like Jeckyl-Hydes. During WWII, I worked this technique with a Marine lieutenant I’ll call Jones. I split his personality into Jones A and Jones B. Jones A, once a ‘normal’ Marine, became entirely different. He talked communist doctrine and meant it. He was welcomed enthusiastically by communist cells, and was deliberately given a dishonorable discharge. Jones B was the deeper personality, knew all the thoughts of Jones A, and was ‘imprinted’ to say nothing during conscious phases. All I had to do was hypnotize him, get in touch with Jones B, and I had a pipeline straight into the Communist camp.” BB 167-169 For more on CIA mind control projects, [url "http//www.wanttoknow.info/mindcontrol10pg#cia"]click here[/url].

[url "http//wanttoknow.info/mindcontrol"]http//wanttoknow.info/mindcontrol[/url]



Tim
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 Post subject: Re: [Timbit] MK Ultra
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:17 am 
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The general consensus was that they could not, through hypnosis, induce a person to actions the person would otherwise not want to commit.

Even the more strident mind control experimentation, like Dr Camerons' failed to have the results they wanted.

Course, that's the 'legitimate' conclusion, who knows what they still up to in hopes of refining mind control. Gitmo suggests they're using the 'legitimate' conclusions techniques.

What they found is what they are using in Gitmo, sensory deprivation, overload - invasion of privacy etc, the sure fire recipe for psychosis.

Once a person has been broken, it's much easier to imprint utilizing Stanford style pressures.

They've utilized the research in the war on terror, as evinced by Gitmo. Gitmo is not a prison camp, it's a mind control camp. A souped up Chinese re-education camp.

And everyone knows they're eligible.

And the other obvious and most logical area of mind control that the mk ultra programs are still experimenting and developing are those of mass media mind control.

The internet would be a hot bed, logically.

Essentially, it is propaganda as it relates to the mind and assumes tabulae raza, or at least wishes for it. No doubt there are even worse experiments going on, on earth, than mass media propaganda or subliminal manipulations.

A world deluded on gratifications. David Barclay mentioned denial, everyone is addicted to their shopping and cars and looking a certain way, smelling a certain way - etc. Denial and the psychotic thinking patterns of addiction are commonplace and 'normal' organized functional psychosis, like destroying a planet by burning fossil fuels, when alternatives are available, but it's not pursued --

The internet is quickly becoming a mainstay of addiction and it's a misplaced priority that can be easily manipulated to insinuate an agenda.

Death so death it is...We all hope there are governing bodies higher than mans. But if we are to enter the cosmos as their partners and not their pariahs, than one imagines they're not anxious for twenty four hour a day high decibel heavy metal bombardment.

The form of mental torture used on Noriega. Sound weapons being among those being staggered into the market of crowd control now.

Speech separates man from animals in that man has the ability to transmute matter with sound. The essence of alchemy is the transmutation of energy.

Or the control of mind. But the mind is not a blank slate and man's desire to imprint rather than nurture individual contribution is an implication that we are little more than animals.

Of course those suffering the effects of mind control are all over the world. Idi Amin was the last King of Scotland and the Emperor had new clothes. Without being products of actual programs, everyone has the traumatic legacy of barbarity and that of a "fallen world"

"The Shock Doctrine" by Naomi Klien examines how new economic paradigms seek to exploit the legacy of trauma that is mankind's world.

For the least with the least access to those ephemeral qualities that give suffering meaning or justice -- those injured by those experiments, they are less able to defend themselves than some.

Mental torture, being worse than physical, and it's legacy is an actual inability to defend oneself -- delayed reaction, programmed/habituated learned helplessness, flight, fright or frozen - or simply hysterical.

Malcolm X's mother went mad from the neighbor's brutality.

She didn't need a mind control program, enough people treated her like an animal.
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