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 Post subject: Re: [lotus] MK Ultra
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:31 am 
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Cameron in my opinion was a red herring, a decoy intended to be discovered because nothing was hidden, it was all out in the open from day one. You would conclude that the CIAs efforts failed.

What Estabrook states is absolutely true and the goals as Timbit spelled out were achieved with great success.

A programmed code worked in a couple of seconds and left no conscious memory of the events that occurred. And they achieved the split without creating a psychosis, which in itself is quite amazing.

What was achieved is still classified and will be for some time.
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 Post subject: Re: [lotus] MK Ultra
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:42 am 
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I think that it is still true by today's standards that a person under hypnosis cannot be ordered to do anything that they would otherwise not do consciously. I'm not so sure from what I read that Dr. Cameron (and others like him) were not successful in taking or producing a hypnotic state that triggered an [i]already[/i] programmed mind, that was later activated by hypnosis, or some sort of trigger.

The experiments they conducted such as on Linda McDonald, rendered her physically and mentally to a vetative state whereby her memory was completely removed and all normal human functions were erased. She had to learn the most basic things like going to the bathroom.

I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination here, and this is only my opinion, but say Linda McDonalds 'void' mind was programmed, into another set of personality protocols for the specific purpose of responding to an external trigger. It would seem possible then, that even as she recovered to her normal life cognitively, she could have been unaware that a second, independant personality, also lived within her mind, known only to those who established it, and also held the key to activate it.

These walking time bombs are not a new theory. In David's writing and in the Lincoln Park thread, there were many experiments independant of the LSD experiments for example, that used children as subjects in order to produce this split personality for purposes used by military (at least at that time). Knowing what we do about the extent of the programming used on those children, and in other instances such as those described in the link, my assumption is that over the past several decades, it has probably been perfected.

Mind control is something again, as in inducing psychosis, as you noted at Gitmo. God only knows how those techniques will affect the prisoners over the years to come. There are many ways to control a person through 'legitimate' means; or a population, or congregation or what have you. Manipulation, even at extreme levels, has to have benefit for purposes of control.

But to take a perfectly innocent mind, and produce from it a monster from within, capable of being manipulated to do acts that it would normally not do under any other circumstances, is like implanting a physical transmitter of some sort, that at the turn of a switch, an alternate person takes over.

And again different from Linda McDonald, part of that extensive 'other' personality, would have no recall of being programmed in the first place. Whatever action they were programmed to do would not relate back to a way to prove that any external control existed in the first place. Who would believe that just a regular everyday banker for instance, suddenly went on a rampage and killed all the executives at a board meeting and claimed to have been programmed to do so. We would conclude that some psychosis was dormant and suddenly he just went postal. Nobody in their right mind would just suddenly up at kill people right?

But are conclusions like that always necessarily correct. We can only make presumptions on what we know, and that is precious little. Even after the early experiments of the late 1920's to today, nobody is going to admit such extreme conditions exist in people that are not there naturally.

I agree with you that there are certainly worse experiments going on today that we are unaware of. Like what we are beginning to understand now in that regard, will it be another 70 years before we begin to understand what mankind has done to itself?

Tim
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:43 pm 
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Ultimately they're fighting over the right to define reality.

Certainly humanist and existential phenomenologists do not have a scientific theory that is compatible with mind control.

But what is disturbing is the institutionalized adoption of all the Nazi Paperclip doctors was facilitated by a cultural and social identification.

Identification with the fascist paradigms that justify the use of children and vulnerable people in illegal and inhuman experiments.

The recent case in New York of the social services agency selling their sickest and most vulnerable children into highly dangerous and classified drug studies, while the public reaction is muted or non existent, exemplifies how our culture condones mind control.

How extensive is the official involvement? How deep is the graft? And who stands to win from convincing people they have no right to think for themselves?

Aristotle had a good philosophy of happiness, but Socrates is dead. The American high school text books being published now conclude that Socrates committed suicide because he couldn't follow the law.

Of course he was executed and given a choice of suicide because he was an aristocrat.

He was executed for stating that he could not follow an Athenian law if it was counter to man's higher conscience.

The new texts explain he committed suicide for being unable to follow the law.

Like verbally mutilating someone and then accusing them likewise.
[url "http://www.createforum.com/universalsight/viewtopic.php?mforum=universalsight&t=443&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30&mforum=universalsight"]http://www.createforum.com/...forum=universalsight[/url]
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 Post subject: Re: [lotus] MK Ultra
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:03 pm 
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How many people are monarchs and how many has Krause's louse triggered dead?

Was the early childhood trauma and the rabbit they took home from the lab so many years ago, the rabbit they saved from the experiments -- was that mind control?

What explains the ability to trigger with a few words, a dissociated alter.

One who is afraid for her life, mute and mutilated with trauma.

Is it endemic, subliminal prompts or mind control.

Whether or not the trauma was officially inculcated - it's still officially condoned and applauded by the people who claim to oppose it. It's employed and enabled by the public.

Furthermore, those who are charged with healing the wreckage are glorified extension of the sick social paradigms that perpetuates malpractice. The doctors who perform the experiments share many philosophical similarities with the doctors then charged with healing the products.

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 Post subject: Re: MK Ultra
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 8:31 am 
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Location: Canada
It seems incomprehensible, but it's true.

Canada has been getting away with murder for as long as there has been a Canada.

The murder of children was and is condoned, tens of thousands of them.

Yet not one of these dead children has ever been offered accountability or some small element of justice.

But there is another factor involved...no one single person knows the whole story or how many children were actually subjected to brutal torture in the name of medical experimentation.

For the most highly classified programs the children were imported from overseas in that it was imperative that there be no manner by which they might be identified. So children were purchased on the black market and transported to Canada to be used in experimental programs.

Today the records documenting many of these secret programs are protected by law and held in the Canadian Archives, which means they are not available to anyone outside of government agents having a need to know.

Intimidation and death threats are still employed to maintain an element of denial that any such experiments occurred.

How can a democratic government hide the painful existence of children and the crimes committed against them and still claim to represent the rights and freedoms of all Canadians.

I have placed paper work on the desk of four prime ministers and all of them have chosen not to acknowledge the severity of the situation...and accept the excuses made by the military command.

All but the last, who not only wished to absolve himself of the issue but pressured one of his own members of parliament to keep quiet and make no further comments regarding such allegations.

What kind of a future can be built upon the broken minds and bodies of innocent children?

What kind of a future will evolve from deception and lies?


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 Post subject: Re: MK Ultra
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:10 am 
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When you realize what has already been achieved with complete impunity, what now lies ahead is far too frightening to even consider.


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