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 Post subject: Can’t we just hold it?
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 1:21 pm 
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Can’t we just hold it?

Accept or reject are not the only options one has. The most important and generally overlooked, especially by the young, is the option to ‘hold’.

It appears to me that many young people consider that ‘to be negative is to be cool’. This leads them into responding that ‘X is false’ when responding to an OP that states that ‘X is true’.

When a person takes a public position affirming or denying the truth of ‘Y’ they are often locking themselves into a difficult position. If their original position was based on opinion rather than judgment their ego will not easily allow them to change position once they have studied and analyzed ‘Y’.

The moral of this story is that holding a default position of ‘reject or accept’, when we are ignorant, is not smart because our ego will fight any attempt to modify the opinion with a later judgment. Silence, or questions directed at comprehending the matter under consideration, is the smart decision for everyone’s default position.

Our options are reject, accept, and hold. I claim that ‘hold’ is the most important and should be the most often used because everyone is ignorant of almost everything.

Do you accept, reject, or hold judgment regarding my claim?


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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 10:04 pm 
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I will have to critically think about that. ;)

Tim

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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 11:47 pm 
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I used to think way too deeply on issues that there are no right or wrong answers. Saying that I also have to say that I accept everyones opinion and what they believe, for I am no one to judge anyone on anything.
There are certain things like religion, politics and others that we can debate until the cows come home and I love to go back and forth, it makes for growth in knowledge, but I also like to try and keep things as simple as I can because I can talk myself out of something that I know is right if I overanylise it.
So I do not agree or disagree, I only listen. joey978

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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 2:34 am 
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Well said Joey. Keep it simple.

Tim

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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 10:52 am 
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Iraq has weapons of mass destruction.
Freud and Darwin are frauds.
God made me.
You are driving too fast.

When faced with these statements does it matter which of the three buttons ‘accept, reject, or hold’ that you push?

Just what impact does a decision of 'reject or accept' have on my future considerations?

It is my assumption that such a decision causes me to either stop or at least to slow down any further consideration of the matter. It appears to me that many of our conclusions are “worked out” within our unconscious, especially while we sleep.

Our educational system is designed around the basic premise that the students will accept what is told to them and that this acceptance is very important for their future welfare and for the welfare of the community.


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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 5:46 pm 
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I think that most people do 'hold it', when faced with new or conflicting statements such as you've described.

Take Freud for example. He was the baseline of psychology and all theories stemming from from his work, when I first started studying the subject 30 years ago.

Even back then, taking his work as the baseline for all applied theories of psychoanalysis, and going from there, new theories and new thinkers have proven much of what he accomplished by way of shaping an entire consciousness' understanding of behaviour, has been proven, with today's standard's, as redundant. Except to those that have decided that he was, and is, the be-all of all understanding of human behaviour.

So, there will be some who never get off the merry go round of basing all of their ideas and practice with that Freud baseline. There are far more, now, that don't.

Sometimes holding it, really means holding back, not learning new information, and not realizing the old theories of the past, no longer apply in the year 2009.

It may be more of 'holding back', until you learn enough to say, it really is time to move on and change antiquated thinking, that has far more credibility in today's world, than in yesterday's world.

Holding it, may just mean spinning one's wheels until the cows come home, but has no real practical purpose, both theoretically, and in a practical sense to those that rely on that information for accurate diagnosis and treatment.

Just an example, but we cannot afford to just 'hold it', and expect to move forward.

Tim

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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 4:20 am 
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Holding it may be exactly as you sat Tim. I believe much of frued and others of his day is antiquated thinking, for they cannot base their theorys in the world in which we live in today.They lived in a different time when thinking was a whole or at least in part different from today.
For example, what was acceptable then may not be acceptable now, for instance frued believed that a cocaine injection was good for some people back then but it would be taboo by todays standards, so we cannot base assumptions on outdated thinking. This is yet another topic that cannot be solved with a simple answer or maybe no answer at all, onlt conjecture, and in the end of all the debatable subjects I am still no wiser than I was before, more confused.
All this is is a philosophical nightmare to me I wonder why coberst presents me with these theorys that have no real applications at least not in the world I live in, I understand you are wll educated and well spoken but what is the bottom line? joey978

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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 4:31 am 
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I would have liked to have seen Freud at work Joey. Watched all the skinny little men hang and drool on his every word. The world of academia is just as stuffy and political now, as it was then. Look what happened to Dr. Mack.

In Freud's day there was not even a term for homosexuality for example. People just did it with whoever caught their fancy. It wasn't considered an illness or perverted or sick. It just was.

Then I would have partied with him, and observed all the cocaine going around, and the mad writings and sober interpretations of all the 'insights' that they had, the next day of course.

Sadly, I think in Freuds day, they had the means to study so many things outside the box, but the box became the sole property of the great, stoned thinkers of the day.

Same thing today really.

Tim

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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 6:34 am 
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The stoned genius syndrome might be approached from a research perspective but at the present time there is no known remedy other than forced sobriety, which is considered to be no more than a temporary fix.

Yes, being stoned is believed by some to enhance one's perception whereby allowing revolutionary ideas to evolve into mainstream orthodox theories of unquestionable value.

In Freud's case he saw most of us walking about chained to a chamber pot suitable for a small child, which is unquestionably a less than dignified manner by which to enter a room full of scholarly peers.

Woman loved Freud because he certainly was no prude and they found his constant reference to the various aspects of human sexuality somewhat of a giggle and a bit of a rush.

And if it had not been for the women flocking to his door he may not have become the household word he is today, the father of modern psychiatry, the academic daddy.

Remember he was the guy who coined such words as Id, whoa, as in the id, only a stoned genius would come up with something like that to call the core of our human psyche.

Yes, the id, as in the idiot, the ideology, the ideal, the idea, the idol, the I daddy complex.


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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 6:51 am 
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Don't forget he is most famous for blaming everything on mother's.

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